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  How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
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FluddyFlea
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How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Thread started on: Jun 10th, 2003, 2:50pm »

Seems there is something big i missed on this track. I get to 1'11"137 NTSC (1'25"364 PAL) and dont really know how to improve the time, but my main concern is the max speed. I dont really get any higher than 1414 (1178 PAL) km/h. Eeh seems unreal to improve that by 500 km/h so could someone explain what the trick is? Thanks!
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Re: How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Reply #1 on: Jun 10th, 2003, 4:08pm »

Without knowing the details, there either has to be luck or secrecy of strat involved for Dustin to be that far ahead of everyone else.
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FluddyFlea
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Re: How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Reply #2 on: Jun 12th, 2003, 06:53am »

Yup, but I don't even have any idea of how to come close to the max speeds of other guys at the top.
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David Van Moer
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Re: How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Reply #3 on: Jun 12th, 2003, 11:01am »

Apparently the strat here is a bit similar to the one on DF. When you fly out of the loop , hold the stick somewhat down and keep boosting to fly over the track and gain some height and then try and get into a TDD landing past the finish line just before the tunnel. Works best with the lightest craft Twin Noritta.
Not sure though cos when I tried it I always fell back to the track like a rock .. speeds will never be my strongpoint.

To get something like 1300 PAL like I have all you have to do is railboostslide agianst the left rail near the end of the loop and do a lightening fast DTD with R when flying off. Not a lot of height there of course..

DVM
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FluddyFlea
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Re: How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Reply #4 on: Jun 12th, 2003, 11:36am »

Ah, never thought of boostrailsliding and doing a DTD there but I suspected the trick was something around that fly-off. Never thought of it because its not useful for the course speed. Thats what I thought anyway, maybe it is useful?

That other thing with a TDD sounds insane though. I wont bother getting into that for a while

Thanks,

Mark Slight
« Last Edit: Jun 12th, 2003, 11:37am by FluddyFlea » Logged

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Placid
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Re: How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Reply #5 on: Jun 16th, 2003, 11:51pm »

A Mini-Guide to Floating

I suggest that understanding and practicing the "floating" technique is well worth the bother. As DVM describes above, the MC and DF maxspeed strategies both involve pointing one's car (preferably the lightweight Twin Noritta with slider settings) upwards and boosting constantly to gain height. Call this the floating technique.

How to Float

For best results while learning, the car ought to be kept rather straight and steady while floating upwards. If each boost does not add to the car's height, then your angle is off and needs adjusting. Also, if you start drifting to one side or another, you'll probably begin to lose height. [To be properly nuanced: In particular situations, advanced players may have good reason to make some mid-air turns or "drifts" while floating upwards.]

In any case, when floating one gains more and more height by boosting in the air, preparing for an otherwise impossible dive. From the floating nose-up position in the air, the next step is to DTD down (as in DF) or TDD down (as in MC).

The floating technique takes practice before one can do it consistently. At first, it may seem difficult to point the car up enough without pointing it up too much. After lifting off, holding "down" on the stick for too short or too long a period of time will cause the car to sink. Once you've found the correct angle, just leave it there and boost without ceasing. To see the correct angle in action, I suggest watching JKT's video where he drives a lap of RC backwards. One key to floating is finding the correct angle - not pointed upwards too little or too much - *quickly* after leaving the track. Once you can get this upward angle, floating starts to become pretty intuitive - and a very useful move.

Practice

A good place to practice floating is DF2. Taking off at around 1100 km/h from the tunnel, float about four boosts over the little humps, and when high enough, DTD down to the lowest point of the sharp turn below. Of course, you can't just start a DTD with your car's nose pointing straight up in the air. DT-R and hold right+down for a half-second to get the car pointing at a good DTD angle, and then DTD down holding up+right and repeatedly tapping DT-Z for the duration of the dive. 3000 is possible using this strategy, and it is obvious that the standard maxspeed strategies on this level simply don't compare.

Of course, the dive on DF2 isn't exactly how all post-floating dives are done. The dive on DF, for example, is essentially the reverse of the dive on DF2. Getting into DTD-dive position from mid-air on DF, therefore, involves doing a DT-Z while holding left-down for a half-second, and then repeatedly tapping DT-R for the duration for the dive.

TDDing from a mid-air floating position is a bit trickier and more difficult to describe. In fact, I don't think I've really figured out how to do it best yet. Even what I do understand seems to be confined mostly to the realm of tacit knowledge. If anyone is interested, maybe I'll work on describing this beast later on.

Where Floating is Useful

I've used the floating technique on many courses. My strategies for all of the following maxspeeds required floating: MC*, SO*, DF, RC, DF2, MC2, WL, Sil2, BH*. On the marked courses with an asterisk I employed a TDD; all the others used DTD(s). As a rule, TDDs are only used when one cannot get enough height for a 2000+ DTD. On certain courses (e.g., BH), it just doesn't seem possible to get high enough with floating to beat the TDD speed with a DTD.

Floating isn't *just* useful for adding km/h to your maxspeeds, though. In some cases, floating can provide an ideal entrance into a third lap for a fastlap record. For example, one can enter lap three of RC going 2500-3000 (JKT has used this technique to achieve a sub-17 sec fastlap; cf. "normal" fastlaps absolutely maxing out in the low 18 sec range). Just this week I've greatly improved my MC fastlap by beginning it with a high-speed TDD, and as far as I can tell this strategy is simply untouchable with even a perfectly played Blood Hawk slider lap. I suspect that there are more WRs which require floating waiting out there.

The Sharp Edge of Floating

If you look at the records on this site, you'll notice that floating takes many marks to an entirely different level; that is, you'll often leave folks who can't perform the technique in the dust. Indeed, how is 1986 maxspeed possible on MC? For the guy who just races on the course of MC as fast as possible in order to get a maxspeed, such a speed boggles the mind. That category maxes out around 1500. Even railsliding-DTD strategies reach their limit around 1600 on MC. The floating strategy is clearly in another class, and at present there are surprisingly few (even among players quite apt at racing) who are above the "normal" maxspeed limits. Instead of slaving away for a handful of km/h more to pass others in "normal" maxspeed mode, spend that time learning to float and you'll be glad you did - as you shoot past all of your old competitors, and see how quickly the skill learned transfers to other courses.

Also note that as long as JKT does his floating with a heavy Night Thunder (why the poor car selection, JKT? ;-)), he will be unable to seriously compete for many floating-oriented marks. I suspect that partially understood techniques like floating are really on the cutting edge of what will bring about future F-Zero X WRs, especially given that JKT has at least temporarily chosen to handicap himself in this area (I hope he'll give it up and use the best car for each track in the future...). If you're trying to set a WR by just copying JKT's videos, well, you'll be very good, but let's admit it: he's hard to one-up in pure skill with no strategic/tactical modifications.

-Jim Mitchell
« Last Edit: Jun 17th, 2003, 12:03am by Placid » Logged

David Van Moer
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Re: How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Reply #6 on: Jun 17th, 2003, 05:49am »

Interesting stuff Jim ! Very well written to.. is this part of some huge guide coming up ?

Seriously thinking about blowing off the dust of my copy and having a go at that. Could benefit greatly from improving my speeds.


DVM
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Placid
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Re: How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Reply #7 on: Jun 17th, 2003, 09:20am »

Good to hear that you may be up for another round of F-Zero X, DVM. Floating is fun.

I'm not planning on creating a comprehensive F-Zero X guide. There are already many places where one can go to figure out sliding, railsliding, DTDs, TDDs, etc. However, there are really a number of advanced techniques that simply aren't given much (if any) discussion at all on the web. Beyond the technicalities of floating, I'm thinking of issues like:

-How the weight/settings/grip of a car affects DTDs, TDDs, pipe-side DTs, tunnel exit DTs, etc.

-What sort of joystick movements and/or DTs are required to get a car at the best DTD angle from various positions (floating nose-up in air, straight DTD, ACIDTD, etc.)

-"Rolling" DTDs, which allow for better landings. (e.g., beginning a dive by holding up-left and DT-Ring and then rolling towards up while DT-Ring down.)

-Varieties of railslides. In particular, there are different ways of beginning railslides...how should one transition from driving straight to railsliding against the wall? Also, the advantages and disadvantages of "hard" vs "soft" railsliding angles ought to be considered.

-And so forth.

My limited goal is to attempt to fill in the gaps and describe some of these types of issues as I am able. At this point, I'm not sure that I understand them well enough to make a quality guide. If I get enough useful substance, *perhaps* I could create an "advanced techniques" guide or contribute to someone else's larger project. We'll see.

Whether or not this will come to pass, I'd be pleased to hear what techniques others think need covering as well as information that would aid in understanding particular advanced techniques better. Precise, detailed, technical stuff wanted. Advanced players, once you understood all that is taught in the best online guides, what subtleties allowed you to improve your marks from there?

-Jim Mitchell
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JKTFZEROX
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Re: How is 1986 max speed on MC1 possible?
« Reply #8 on: Jun 19th, 2003, 11:48pm »

Playing for 4 years+ obviously I gotta find out something by then
Highly advance players like me, usually try out everything that might seem be possible to do. All that is left is to fiddle with it tilll you eventually master it.
I've come across Sliding|Railsliding|Bouncesliding|Switchslide|DTD|TDD|ACIDTD|Floating
What comes next is to connect them together for something even bigger like
Railsliding into a switchslide then into a DTD
Floating then into a ACIDTD or DTD or TDD
or a ACIDTD into another ACIDTD
of course all of these require great measures of skill to perform, you can't just do it instantly off the bat
Strategy is my fort and so is skill, can't have one without the other.

Anyhow its too bad I don't have spare time like I used to. Theres few more neat moves and strategies I figured out from years of experience and yet to show them to everyone.

stuff like mid air 360 airslide without decreasing height, you could float in mid air then suddenly boostairslide and change directions and float the other direction without decreasing height, FZX is more like a airplane flying game now instead of hovercraft hehe, lots of crazy stuff

The secret is the without decreasing height part
lots of joystick movement involved, also tons of difficult air setup angles. Dustin and Jim Michell surely understand how to float pretty darn well if I must say,
but you still both need to work on the track times and fastlaps

I won't be playing much these days but I'll always be here to help or guide the one in need. Any questions or curious about something just post hehe.

well goodluck to all my fellow FZX buddies there later.

,JKTSPEED [I am surely getting pounded around in maxspeeds ]

I'll always handicap myself to a Night Thunder hehe, well when the time comes i'll probably just use the best for all tracks, I did it to fastlaps already just not maxspeeds or tracktimes.
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